1 00:00:14,390 --> 00:00:10,660 a giant hairy creature part ape one man 2 00:00:16,730 --> 00:00:14,400 indians call him sasquatch they believe 3 00:00:20,179 --> 00:00:16,740 he is as gentle as he is powerful and 4 00:00:21,950 --> 00:00:20,189 mysterious he's been seen many times in 5 00:00:24,470 --> 00:00:21,960 the rugged mountains and deep woods of 6 00:00:27,620 --> 00:00:24,480 the Pacific Northwest the encounters 7 00:00:30,169 --> 00:00:27,630 have not always been peaceful if we 8 00:00:32,690 --> 00:00:30,179 assume that bigfoot is real and that men 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:32,700 are closing in on this seemingly gentle 10 00:00:37,940 --> 00:00:35,010 monster then we must prepare for that 11 00:00:40,910 --> 00:00:37,950 first meeting to have eluded us for so 12 00:00:43,459 --> 00:00:40,920 long Bigfoot must understand men very 13 00:00:46,670 --> 00:00:43,469 well the burden will be on us to 14 00:00:56,470 --> 00:00:46,680 understand him Bigfoot may well be 15 00:01:12,800 --> 00:00:59,620 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 16 00:01:19,469 --> 00:01:15,570 hello and welcome to the skeptics our 17 00:01:22,230 --> 00:01:19,479 own episode number 332 for the first of 18 00:01:24,390 --> 00:01:22,240 March 2015 Richard Saunders here with 19 00:01:26,940 --> 00:01:24,400 you from Sydney Australia with once 20 00:01:30,210 --> 00:01:26,950 again I'm delighted to stay my special 21 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:30,220 guest host guest host this week as last 22 00:01:35,370 --> 00:01:33,130 week Joe alabaster hello Joe hello 23 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:35,380 Richard thank you for popping down to 24 00:01:39,870 --> 00:01:37,690 visit me this week not a problem it's 25 00:01:41,550 --> 00:01:39,880 lovely to be done in Sydney even though 26 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:41,560 the weather is going a bit strange on us 27 00:01:45,690 --> 00:01:43,570 yeah as we are recording folks and we're 28 00:01:50,070 --> 00:01:45,700 looking at the radar map here huge storm 29 00:01:51,810 --> 00:01:50,080 cell is just coming over we went outside 30 00:01:53,969 --> 00:01:51,820 a moment ago and we could actually see 31 00:01:55,770 --> 00:01:53,979 the clouds swirling like I've never seen 32 00:01:58,620 --> 00:01:55,780 them before it's a bit area bit spooky 33 00:02:00,210 --> 00:01:58,630 will press on nevertheless Joe what an 34 00:02:02,870 --> 00:02:00,220 interesting show we have for you this 35 00:02:05,940 --> 00:02:02,880 week we do indeed first up we've got 36 00:02:07,710 --> 00:02:05,950 Maynard with a bit of spooky action he 37 00:02:10,350 --> 00:02:07,720 is going to be talking to dr. Alex 38 00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:10,360 Wardak who was speaking at the 39 00:02:14,610 --> 00:02:12,310 Australian skeptics national convention 40 00:02:17,190 --> 00:02:14,620 last year he's very interesting I 41 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:17,200 thought something yeah it's not the 42 00:02:20,460 --> 00:02:18,610 usual sort of thing that goes on the 43 00:02:22,259 --> 00:02:20,470 zone i don't think it's not it's he's 44 00:02:25,319 --> 00:02:22,269 going to be talking about drug reform 45 00:02:26,940 --> 00:02:25,329 hmm now when may not gave you this 46 00:02:29,069 --> 00:02:26,950 interview I thought oh hello this is not 47 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:29,079 quite as you saying not quite that what 48 00:02:32,940 --> 00:02:30,610 you would normally here on the skeptic 49 00:02:35,990 --> 00:02:32,950 zone but it's such a good interview and 50 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:36,000 such interesting points and I think 51 00:02:42,090 --> 00:02:39,010 listeners out there will find dr. word 52 00:02:44,009 --> 00:02:42,100 acts opinions vary worth listening to 53 00:02:46,199 --> 00:02:44,019 even if you don't agree with them and 54 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:46,209 some people will and some people want 55 00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:48,970 it's a good interview and may not really 56 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:51,310 shows his love interview chops in this 57 00:02:54,150 --> 00:02:52,690 one I think good on your Maynard an 58 00:02:56,850 --> 00:02:54,160 interesting interview to kick off the 59 00:02:59,100 --> 00:02:56,860 show this week and following that a 60 00:03:01,140 --> 00:02:59,110 brief interview with a very important 61 00:03:03,660 --> 00:03:01,150 man professor brian schmidt who won a 62 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:03,670 nobel prize in physics he was speaking 63 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:06,610 in canberra the canberra skeptics joe 64 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:08,530 have a lot of good talks down there they 65 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:10,690 really really do yeah I'm very impressed 66 00:03:15,090 --> 00:03:12,850 anyway Kevin Davies from the camera 67 00:03:17,759 --> 00:03:15,100 skeptics catches up with professor 68 00:03:19,290 --> 00:03:17,769 Schmidt just after his talk and has a 69 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:19,300 brief chat with him so I thought I would 70 00:03:23,220 --> 00:03:21,250 include that in this week's show thank 71 00:03:25,380 --> 00:03:23,230 you Kevin for passing that along 72 00:03:28,020 --> 00:03:25,390 me and following that is awake in 73 00:03:30,479 --> 00:03:28,030 silence from our iOS ah the Royal 74 00:03:33,270 --> 00:03:30,489 Institution of Australia in Adelaide I 75 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:33,280 visited there last December when I was 76 00:03:38,009 --> 00:03:34,810 touring with james randi what a fine 77 00:03:41,369 --> 00:03:38,019 outfit it is what's that website mm-hmm 78 00:03:44,339 --> 00:03:41,379 I think it's all right as org dot a you 79 00:03:46,410 --> 00:03:44,349 know I think you're right yes a week in 80 00:03:49,140 --> 00:03:46,420 science a very popular segment on the 81 00:03:52,949 --> 00:03:49,150 skeptic zone after that you and I are 82 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:52,959 going to have a bit of chat about a sad 83 00:03:57,990 --> 00:03:55,510 story as it turns out a woman known as 84 00:04:00,900 --> 00:03:58,000 the wellness warrior is that word 85 00:04:05,670 --> 00:04:00,910 wellness died last week sadly died of 86 00:04:07,830 --> 00:04:05,680 cancer but it seems she could have 87 00:04:10,530 --> 00:04:07,840 prevented this she could have prevented 88 00:04:12,630 --> 00:04:10,540 this she turned her back on what we 89 00:04:15,150 --> 00:04:12,640 might call traditional evidence-based 90 00:04:18,509 --> 00:04:15,160 scientific medicine went down the path 91 00:04:21,659 --> 00:04:18,519 of natural health and all this sort of 92 00:04:23,580 --> 00:04:21,669 thing and it turned out it didn't do her 93 00:04:26,730 --> 00:04:23,590 any good so we'll be discussing her 94 00:04:28,830 --> 00:04:26,740 story a bit later in the show but Joe 95 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:28,840 listeners may have spotted something a 96 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:30,490 little bit unusual about the beginning 97 00:04:35,219 --> 00:04:32,530 of the show before theme music yes that 98 00:04:37,350 --> 00:04:35,229 was Leonard Nimoy the voice of spot the 99 00:04:40,409 --> 00:04:37,360 voice of Atlanta domoi doing the 100 00:04:42,089 --> 00:04:40,419 introduction to a very famous show he 101 00:04:45,330 --> 00:04:42,099 did in the 70s and the early 80s called 102 00:04:47,670 --> 00:04:45,340 in search of now Joe is a little a 103 00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:47,680 little skeptical Richard Saunders not so 104 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:50,550 skeptical in the 1970s watching TV 105 00:04:55,140 --> 00:04:53,410 watching in search of of Leonard Nimoy 106 00:04:57,210 --> 00:04:55,150 and he's looking for in that case 107 00:05:00,120 --> 00:04:57,220 Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster and all 108 00:05:01,230 --> 00:05:00,130 sorts of stuff and we bought it you know 109 00:05:03,510 --> 00:05:01,240 we thought these things were 110 00:05:05,610 --> 00:05:03,520 documentaries and when when I was 111 00:05:07,909 --> 00:05:05,620 younger it was quite something don't 112 00:05:11,129 --> 00:05:07,919 wonder how many people who enjoy these 113 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:11,139 cryptozoology shows and I've enjoyed 114 00:05:15,690 --> 00:05:13,690 such shows myself actually use that as 115 00:05:18,810 --> 00:05:15,700 kind of a gateway towards skepticism 116 00:05:20,339 --> 00:05:18,820 asking more questions and finding out 117 00:05:24,420 --> 00:05:20,349 where to find them it's absolutely true 118 00:05:26,339 --> 00:05:24,430 and I think I mean as a geek in you're a 119 00:05:28,589 --> 00:05:26,349 geek and i'ma geek them with lots of a 120 00:05:30,510 --> 00:05:28,599 14-6 and nerds and things like that of 121 00:05:32,190 --> 00:05:30,520 course we're saddened that Leonard Nimoy 122 00:05:34,770 --> 00:05:32,200 died because we enjoyed these 123 00:05:35,810 --> 00:05:34,780 performances Spock very much but when 124 00:05:38,090 --> 00:05:35,820 you look at the man 125 00:05:40,790 --> 00:05:38,100 himself in a strange sort of way he 126 00:05:44,420 --> 00:05:40,800 inspired science and two very different 127 00:05:47,410 --> 00:05:44,430 ways one is enlarged Lee credited to 128 00:05:50,030 --> 00:05:47,420 Star Trek inspiring people to pursue a 129 00:05:51,050 --> 00:05:50,040 career in science a lot of lots of 130 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:51,060 people around the world millions 131 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:53,010 probably over the years were inspired by 132 00:05:58,190 --> 00:05:56,490 what they saw in Star Trek to to follow 133 00:06:01,040 --> 00:05:58,200 a scientific course in their life I 134 00:06:03,740 --> 00:06:01,050 think yes certainly on a lot of NASA's 135 00:06:05,510 --> 00:06:03,750 social fades and also the astronauts up 136 00:06:07,820 --> 00:06:05,520 on the space station at the moment have 137 00:06:10,850 --> 00:06:07,830 been posting tributes saying that they 138 00:06:13,220 --> 00:06:10,860 were incredibly inspired by Spock as a 139 00:06:15,110 --> 00:06:13,230 science officer and I think having 140 00:06:18,470 --> 00:06:15,120 somebody like that in pop culture is 141 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:18,480 absolutely fantastic that it gave me a 142 00:06:26,390 --> 00:06:20,610 bit of nerd pride I've gotta say but 143 00:06:27,710 --> 00:06:26,400 also spoke was a pop culture icon who it 144 00:06:31,580 --> 00:06:27,720 was a positive thing that he was 145 00:06:33,890 --> 00:06:31,590 rational and it promoted rationale for 146 00:06:36,170 --> 00:06:33,900 I'm willing to say I think you're right 147 00:06:38,930 --> 00:06:36,180 and the other the other thing we just 148 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:38,940 mentioned this in search of well it 149 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:41,970 really sparked my interest in in in 150 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:45,450 bizarre strange cryptozoology UFOs 151 00:06:51,050 --> 00:06:47,130 monsters and this sort of thing or it 152 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:51,060 helped it fueled up um so in that 153 00:06:54,860 --> 00:06:53,250 respect to I think we owe him something 154 00:06:57,350 --> 00:06:54,870 even though we look at in search of now 155 00:06:59,810 --> 00:06:57,360 and if folks if you go to a new tube or 156 00:07:02,390 --> 00:06:59,820 just google in search of there are many 157 00:07:06,790 --> 00:07:02,400 episodes on youtube which are well they 158 00:07:09,770 --> 00:07:06,800 don't really stand up I must say he is 159 00:07:11,780 --> 00:07:09,780 nevertheless nevertheless there there 160 00:07:13,250 --> 00:07:11,790 there there for you to enjoy the good 161 00:07:16,100 --> 00:07:13,260 for research and things like that that 162 00:07:17,780 --> 00:07:16,110 show actually started in the in the me 163 00:07:20,660 --> 00:07:17,790 about the mid-70s and read all the way 164 00:07:23,690 --> 00:07:20,670 to 1982 would Leonard Nimoy doing in 165 00:07:27,290 --> 00:07:23,700 search of so yes I said a sad week in 166 00:07:29,030 --> 00:07:27,300 that respect um but it was good that he 167 00:07:30,530 --> 00:07:29,040 did all the things that he did and 168 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:30,540 accomplished all the things he did in 169 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:33,210 his life absolutely alright Joe it's 170 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:35,610 time for you and I to run up the street 171 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:37,770 oh yes we're going to run up the street 172 00:07:42,830 --> 00:07:40,770 in this weather mmm we're going to drive 173 00:07:44,450 --> 00:07:42,840 up the street to our club the for our 174 00:07:46,370 --> 00:07:44,460 famous club just up the end of the road 175 00:07:47,380 --> 00:07:46,380 there I might have a spicy chicken 176 00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:47,390 burger 177 00:07:51,780 --> 00:07:48,470 what do you think what do you think 178 00:07:55,030 --> 00:07:51,790 you'll have I think I'll go with a salad 179 00:07:57,580 --> 00:07:55,040 okay well we're doing that trying to 180 00:08:13,790 --> 00:07:57,590 avoid the the coming storm we hope you 181 00:08:21,890 --> 00:08:18,710 here's may not spooky action at the 182 00:08:26,250 --> 00:08:24,300 well I'm talking to someone now who's 183 00:08:28,230 --> 00:08:26,260 been to university for more than the day 184 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:28,240 that I was there someone i just spent a 185 00:08:31,470 --> 00:08:29,890 lot of time it stands by at newcastle 186 00:08:33,510 --> 00:08:31,480 university but so where did you go to 187 00:08:35,820 --> 00:08:33,520 and what is your position in indeed who 188 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:35,830 are you well my name is dr. Alex Roy 189 00:08:40,350 --> 00:08:37,210 Beck I'm president of the Australian 190 00:08:42,150 --> 00:08:40,360 drug reform foundation and I went to 191 00:08:46,410 --> 00:08:42,160 Melbourne University and studied 192 00:08:49,610 --> 00:08:46,420 medicine in the 1960s and then I've been 193 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:49,620 working as a doctor for 40 years 194 00:08:54,180 --> 00:08:52,570 including 30 years at sin Vincent's 195 00:08:56,670 --> 00:08:54,190 Hospital Sydney running the alcohol and 196 00:08:58,800 --> 00:08:56,680 drug service with your interest in the 197 00:09:01,140 --> 00:08:58,810 alcohol problem it would be universally 198 00:09:03,660 --> 00:09:01,150 recognized that prohibition was the 199 00:09:05,820 --> 00:09:03,670 worst way to approach the alcohol 200 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:05,830 problem in the u.s. is that acknowledged 201 00:09:11,250 --> 00:09:07,690 and why isn't that passed on to other 202 00:09:13,740 --> 00:09:11,260 drugs yes it certainly recognized in the 203 00:09:16,380 --> 00:09:13,750 United States no politician of serious 204 00:09:18,750 --> 00:09:16,390 politician whatever recommend in the 205 00:09:24,060 --> 00:09:18,760 United States to be back to bring it 206 00:09:26,670 --> 00:09:24,070 back and it has been tried in 15 or 20 207 00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:26,680 countries around the world and it's 208 00:09:31,710 --> 00:09:29,710 indeed it's it's currently adopted and 209 00:09:34,380 --> 00:09:31,720 implemented in half a dozen countries 210 00:09:37,370 --> 00:09:34,390 mainly around the Gulf but other 211 00:09:41,850 --> 00:09:37,380 countries like India have implemented it 212 00:09:45,060 --> 00:09:41,860 and largely abandoned it so it's not 213 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:45,070 completely dead the there isn't quite a 214 00:09:50,930 --> 00:09:47,650 relationship between abandoning alcohol 215 00:09:54,090 --> 00:09:50,940 prohibition in 9032 and then the 216 00:09:55,890 --> 00:09:54,100 adoption of prohibition against other 217 00:09:58,350 --> 00:09:55,900 psychoactive some other psychoactive 218 00:10:00,860 --> 00:09:58,360 substances in the United States and the 219 00:10:04,890 --> 00:10:00,870 United States has been very evangelical 220 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:04,900 outside its own country in encouraging 221 00:10:11,850 --> 00:10:06,970 or in some cases forcing other countries 222 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:11,860 to ban other drugs it's now clear within 223 00:10:18,630 --> 00:10:13,690 the united states that drug prohibition 224 00:10:21,930 --> 00:10:18,640 has got a limited life but getting rid 225 00:10:24,330 --> 00:10:21,940 of it is is not going to be easy either 226 00:10:26,490 --> 00:10:24,340 because there are so many people who 227 00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:26,500 make a good living out of drug 228 00:10:30,370 --> 00:10:27,470 prohibition in 229 00:10:33,250 --> 00:10:30,380 leading all the people in customs police 230 00:10:36,490 --> 00:10:33,260 courts and prisons the whole criminal 231 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:36,500 justice system politicians have had an 232 00:10:40,750 --> 00:10:39,170 easy ride out of drug prohibition so 233 00:10:43,020 --> 00:10:40,760 they'll be reluctant to give up 234 00:10:45,550 --> 00:10:43,030 something that's made it so easy for 235 00:10:48,220 --> 00:10:45,560 unelectable politicians to get elected 236 00:10:51,940 --> 00:10:48,230 and re-elected and then we've got all 237 00:10:54,940 --> 00:10:51,950 the people who run private prisons we've 238 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:54,950 got government officials who will see 239 00:10:59,440 --> 00:10:57,050 their jobs being threatened if drug 240 00:11:02,770 --> 00:10:59,450 prohibition goes present Eisenhower's 241 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:02,780 famous for identifying the so-called 242 00:11:08,650 --> 00:11:06,290 military industrial complex in 1961 and 243 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:08,660 many people now talk about the prison 244 00:11:13,270 --> 00:11:11,210 industrial complex in the United States 245 00:11:16,150 --> 00:11:13,280 and other countries as well there's a 246 00:11:19,060 --> 00:11:16,160 huge vested interest that wants to keep 247 00:11:21,850 --> 00:11:19,070 this policy even though it has failed so 248 00:11:24,850 --> 00:11:21,860 miserably yes look this is a debate that 249 00:11:28,950 --> 00:11:24,860 is very difficult I've been engaged in 250 00:11:33,100 --> 00:11:28,960 this debate now for since 1987 up until 251 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:33,110 recent years my opponents have had the 252 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:35,810 best sound bites and a lot of this 253 00:11:41,860 --> 00:11:38,570 debate has been conducted at a very 254 00:11:44,620 --> 00:11:41,870 superficial unsophisticated level 255 00:11:46,900 --> 00:11:44,630 playing on people's fears and anxieties 256 00:11:50,410 --> 00:11:46,910 now that's fair enough to some extent 257 00:11:52,180 --> 00:11:50,420 but it's only in recent times of the 258 00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:52,190 debate has really got serious and and 259 00:11:57,700 --> 00:11:54,140 that the some degree of sophistication 260 00:12:01,240 --> 00:11:57,710 has appeared in this debate so part of 261 00:12:02,770 --> 00:12:01,250 the problem is a 1977 Senate inquire in 262 00:12:05,050 --> 00:12:02,780 Australia called the drug problem 263 00:12:11,020 --> 00:12:05,060 problem that the poor quality of the 264 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:11,030 discussion and and reducing a complex 265 00:12:17,650 --> 00:12:14,210 topic to absurdly ridiculous absurdly 266 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:17,660 simple sort of sound bites has made it 267 00:12:21,790 --> 00:12:19,730 much more difficult to discuss this 268 00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:21,800 issue is this somewhere in the world 269 00:12:25,630 --> 00:12:23,510 that we can point to that's doing it 270 00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:25,640 right by your thinking we could go well 271 00:12:31,139 --> 00:12:27,110 perhaps we could adopt some of their 272 00:12:33,670 --> 00:12:31,149 ideas yes well Europe started to 273 00:12:35,950 --> 00:12:33,680 acknowledge that this that we were going 274 00:12:40,290 --> 00:12:35,960 nowhere with this and the Netherlands in 275 00:12:43,090 --> 00:12:40,300 the 1970s early 1970s held two 276 00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:43,100 commissions and after the second of 277 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:46,160 those commissions they started to slowly 278 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:48,890 but surely move away from a drug 279 00:12:53,380 --> 00:12:50,450 prohibition system and they tried to 280 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:53,390 separate the market for cannabis from 281 00:12:59,530 --> 00:12:55,490 the market for other illicit drugs which 282 00:13:01,660 --> 00:12:59,540 was which has worked and they did a lot 283 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:01,670 of things that were that helped to 284 00:13:07,810 --> 00:13:03,410 reduce drug problems in the Netherlands 285 00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:07,820 Switzerland in the 1990s was also took 286 00:13:14,590 --> 00:13:09,680 at another stage further than Portugal 287 00:13:18,430 --> 00:13:14,600 in 2001 introduced a different approach 288 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:18,440 but also that worked but these will 289 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:21,890 really all fairly minor reforms just 290 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:24,970 reforms around the edges and it's really 291 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:29,450 in the last five years that the reforms 292 00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:31,970 have started in the Americas in the 293 00:13:37,329 --> 00:13:34,160 United States and in Central and South 294 00:13:39,519 --> 00:13:37,339 America what's what's driven that has it 295 00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:39,529 been a sudden awakening of common sense 296 00:13:43,930 --> 00:13:41,600 or that decided that they can get some 297 00:13:46,210 --> 00:13:43,940 tax money for this is there some 298 00:13:47,650 --> 00:13:46,220 imperative that they have that they've 299 00:13:51,490 --> 00:13:47,660 been missing that they've suddenly woken 300 00:13:54,660 --> 00:13:51,500 up to well you have to really go to the 301 00:13:58,660 --> 00:13:54,670 American hemisphere and see for yourself 302 00:14:00,910 --> 00:13:58,670 just how traumatized the American 303 00:14:04,660 --> 00:14:00,920 hemisphere has been by drug prohibition 304 00:14:07,210 --> 00:14:04,670 and especially the Central and South 305 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:07,220 America the countries that talk most 306 00:14:11,890 --> 00:14:10,010 about how terrible is drugs are other 307 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:11,900 rich countries like Australia but the 308 00:14:15,970 --> 00:14:13,970 countries that really suffer from drugs 309 00:14:18,190 --> 00:14:15,980 are the countries are suffer from drug 310 00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:18,200 prohibition and they are by and large 311 00:14:23,019 --> 00:14:20,870 the producer countries and the transit 312 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:23,029 countries and there are many producer 313 00:14:27,850 --> 00:14:25,250 and transit countries in Central and 314 00:14:30,730 --> 00:14:27,860 South America and what happens is that a 315 00:14:35,230 --> 00:14:30,740 lot of the drugs are produced in in 316 00:14:37,060 --> 00:14:35,240 Latin America and and supplied to the 317 00:14:39,010 --> 00:14:37,070 country which has got the largest 318 00:14:40,750 --> 00:14:39,020 consumption the largest amount in the 319 00:14:43,129 --> 00:14:40,760 world in the United States and so as 320 00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:43,139 these drugs go up this very 321 00:14:50,359 --> 00:14:46,049 we narrow her isthmus connecting South 322 00:14:51,999 --> 00:14:50,369 America and North America the the battle 323 00:14:55,429 --> 00:14:52,009 between law enforcement and the 324 00:14:58,759 --> 00:14:55,439 trafficking organizations reaches a very 325 00:15:02,090 --> 00:14:58,769 intense level and there's carnage left 326 00:15:04,909 --> 00:15:02,100 right and center kidnappings extortion 327 00:15:07,609 --> 00:15:04,919 political corruption and life is 328 00:15:10,699 --> 00:15:07,619 unbearable and I've seen this myself in 329 00:15:12,919 --> 00:15:10,709 in Mexico and Mexico at the moment is in 330 00:15:15,079 --> 00:15:12,929 real turmoil it's a real lesson to the 331 00:15:17,989 --> 00:15:15,089 rest of the world this is what happens 332 00:15:20,569 --> 00:15:17,999 with drug prohibition so whatever you do 333 00:15:23,869 --> 00:15:20,579 don't do what is happening in South 334 00:15:26,659 --> 00:15:23,879 America so really it's it's Central and 335 00:15:29,090 --> 00:15:26,669 South America that have forced North 336 00:15:32,419 --> 00:15:29,100 America US and Canada to start taking 337 00:15:35,119 --> 00:15:32,429 this issue seriously and a lot of people 338 00:15:38,449 --> 00:15:35,129 in the United States now can see with 339 00:15:40,789 --> 00:15:38,459 their own eyes just how damaging drug 340 00:15:42,439 --> 00:15:40,799 prohibition has been for people in 341 00:15:44,329 --> 00:15:42,449 Central and South America that's why 342 00:15:47,329 --> 00:15:44,339 this is really changing around the world 343 00:15:50,090 --> 00:15:47,339 it was a commission of former presence 344 00:15:52,369 --> 00:15:50,100 in South America that first started 345 00:15:54,769 --> 00:15:52,379 ringing the alarm bells and that led to 346 00:15:57,439 --> 00:15:54,779 the global Commission on drug policy in 347 00:16:00,289 --> 00:15:57,449 june two thousand eleven and that's led 348 00:16:04,039 --> 00:16:00,299 to a huge reaction around the world mmm 349 00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:04,049 and in this country we would it with 350 00:16:07,699 --> 00:16:05,519 different kinds of drugs have their own 351 00:16:09,619 --> 00:16:07,709 problems like like the ice problem is 352 00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:09,629 different to what people call a cannabis 353 00:16:13,340 --> 00:16:11,040 problem and that sort of thing so you 354 00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:13,350 would go very slowly and carefully 355 00:16:18,319 --> 00:16:15,360 through any sort of regulation wouldn't 356 00:16:20,119 --> 00:16:18,329 you no quite the opposite why does 357 00:16:23,299 --> 00:16:20,129 Australia have a nice problem Australia 358 00:16:25,929 --> 00:16:23,309 has a nice problem thank you due to drug 359 00:16:28,729 --> 00:16:25,939 prohibition we before we had powder 360 00:16:31,970 --> 00:16:28,739 methamphetamine but powder 361 00:16:34,279 --> 00:16:31,980 methamphetamine is is a salt dissolves 362 00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:34,289 easily in water very difficult to 363 00:16:39,159 --> 00:16:36,959 vaporize whereas a crystalline 364 00:16:41,439 --> 00:16:39,169 methamphetamine so-called ice is 365 00:16:43,819 --> 00:16:41,449 difficult dissolve in water but 366 00:16:46,369 --> 00:16:43,829 vaporizes very readily low melting point 367 00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:46,379 and so if you want to inhale that argue 368 00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:49,199 it's very easy to and if you inhale the 369 00:16:52,970 --> 00:16:51,480 drug its rapidly absorbed it goes from 370 00:16:54,079 --> 00:16:52,980 the air compartment of the lungs into 371 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:54,089 the blood very 372 00:16:59,090 --> 00:16:56,730 rapidly and then it's from seven seconds 373 00:17:01,699 --> 00:16:59,100 from the lung to the brain and that 374 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:01,709 means very little dilution and that 375 00:17:07,279 --> 00:17:05,250 means the huge bang for the buck that if 376 00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:07,289 somebody is taking vaporized 377 00:17:12,890 --> 00:17:09,839 methamphetamine it's exactly like taking 378 00:17:15,710 --> 00:17:12,900 crack cocaine that the whole process is 379 00:17:19,970 --> 00:17:15,720 accelerated and that means greater 380 00:17:22,429 --> 00:17:19,980 impact but also greater toxicity so for 381 00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:22,439 the buyer and greater benefits more 382 00:17:27,980 --> 00:17:24,959 cost-effective but also unfortunately 383 00:17:30,830 --> 00:17:27,990 more damage to them and their loved ones 384 00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:30,840 and their community and we got the air 385 00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:33,840 through drug prohibition because if if a 386 00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:37,679 is selling ice and B is selling powder 387 00:17:45,049 --> 00:17:41,070 methamphetamine well the guy selling the 388 00:17:46,940 --> 00:17:45,059 ice is going to shifty his or her 389 00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:46,950 product much faster than the guy selling 390 00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:49,620 be and get a better price for this is 391 00:17:54,769 --> 00:17:52,320 what drives the prohibition the market 392 00:17:58,220 --> 00:17:54,779 under prohibition and we can only 393 00:18:02,200 --> 00:17:58,230 reverse that by taking away the 394 00:18:04,940 --> 00:18:02,210 prohibition framework and so what will 395 00:18:07,940 --> 00:18:04,950 have to happen is that we will have to 396 00:18:11,180 --> 00:18:07,950 have some legal regulated form of 397 00:18:13,639 --> 00:18:11,190 stimulant that people can buy it won't 398 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:13,649 be rocket fuel like ice it won't even be 399 00:18:17,419 --> 00:18:15,510 rocket fuel like pound of 400 00:18:20,539 --> 00:18:17,429 methamphetamine but it'll be something 401 00:18:23,330 --> 00:18:20,549 and that the community can live with and 402 00:18:25,789 --> 00:18:23,340 that people can take and not damage 403 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:25,799 themselves irreparably so we'll have to 404 00:18:29,450 --> 00:18:27,510 have some kind of compromise and will 405 00:18:32,539 --> 00:18:29,460 take us a while to work that out and I 406 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:32,549 think we'll end up with some form of 407 00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:35,970 compromise sedative drug and some 408 00:18:42,260 --> 00:18:39,360 compromise stimulant drug and some 409 00:18:44,090 --> 00:18:42,270 compromise hallucinogenic drug and we 410 00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:44,100 already have that in a sense with 411 00:18:49,450 --> 00:18:46,710 methadone which is a drug that the 412 00:18:51,649 --> 00:18:49,460 communities not that crazy about and 413 00:18:54,250 --> 00:18:51,659 frankly heroin users aren't all that 414 00:18:56,750 --> 00:18:54,260 crazy about but it's compromise that the 415 00:19:00,019 --> 00:18:56,760 community and the heroin users can both 416 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:00,029 live with and then we can try and get 417 00:19:04,270 --> 00:19:03,090 doctors not easy to to actually 418 00:19:06,490 --> 00:19:04,280 prescribe the drug and look 419 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:06,500 after people who have got severe heroin 420 00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:09,530 problems so this is I think a model and 421 00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:11,510 that's why it's been so fiercely 422 00:19:16,210 --> 00:19:14,510 attacked by the supporters of drug 423 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:16,220 prohibition because they can see that it 424 00:19:22,330 --> 00:19:19,010 works they can see that it's not perfect 425 00:19:24,220 --> 00:19:22,340 but the benefits are huge the unintended 426 00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:24,230 negative consequences are there but 427 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:27,710 they're not huge either and it's it 428 00:19:32,350 --> 00:19:30,650 saves us a bundle of money if every 429 00:19:35,110 --> 00:19:32,360 dollar we spend on that as a community 430 00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:35,120 the community saves about seven dollars 431 00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:37,280 so i think that's the model that we're 432 00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:38,960 going to see more and more with the 433 00:19:44,050 --> 00:19:42,110 other categories of drugs you have to 434 00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:44,060 remember also that there's a lot more 435 00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:46,750 going on and people recognize that 436 00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:49,370 people who sell legal drugs like alcohol 437 00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:52,640 play up the whole debate about illicit 438 00:19:57,490 --> 00:19:54,590 drugs because it makes their product 439 00:20:00,790 --> 00:19:57,500 people forget about the carnage the 440 00:20:03,790 --> 00:20:00,800 social damage the violence and the 441 00:20:06,850 --> 00:20:03,800 corruption the terrible things that 442 00:20:09,460 --> 00:20:06,860 alcohol does in our community and so the 443 00:20:11,770 --> 00:20:09,470 the the people who sell alcohol canned 444 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:11,780 more or less do whatever they want to do 445 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:13,490 with very little interference from 446 00:20:19,030 --> 00:20:15,410 politicians and they've become very 447 00:20:20,710 --> 00:20:19,040 powerful and we mustn't ever let the 448 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:20,720 illicit market behave like the alcohol 449 00:20:24,940 --> 00:20:22,490 market that's truly is one of the 450 00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:24,950 lessons to be learned look it was driven 451 00:20:28,150 --> 00:20:26,480 home a little bit to me where I think 452 00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:28,160 was on Mardi Gras night in Sydney last 453 00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:29,840 year there was a record number of people 454 00:20:33,820 --> 00:20:31,820 arrested going into mardi gras with some 455 00:20:36,250 --> 00:20:33,830 small amount of drugs on the menai and i 456 00:20:37,780 --> 00:20:36,260 really thought that that is that is just 457 00:20:39,310 --> 00:20:37,790 the most useless waste of law 458 00:20:41,290 --> 00:20:39,320 enforcement as these people are going to 459 00:20:43,450 --> 00:20:41,300 a party and here they are ending up in 460 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:43,460 court on Monday morning well that police 461 00:20:48,610 --> 00:20:46,850 are trying to do something to 462 00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:48,620 demonstrate that they are doing 463 00:20:54,270 --> 00:20:51,200 something and they're doing that because 464 00:20:57,130 --> 00:20:54,280 they are their political masters 465 00:21:00,100 --> 00:20:57,140 appreciate the police being seen to be 466 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:00,110 doing something and we see that with the 467 00:21:05,470 --> 00:21:03,170 sniffer dog issue very much so where 468 00:21:07,590 --> 00:21:05,480 there is an appalling lee high rate of 469 00:21:11,690 --> 00:21:07,600 false positives and false negatives 470 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:11,700 there's a lot of money wasted 471 00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:15,090 totally wasted on the sniffer dogs and 472 00:21:21,330 --> 00:21:18,400 where initially the police claimed that 473 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:21,340 this was to catch drug traffickers but 474 00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:23,850 only point one nine percent of of 475 00:21:29,310 --> 00:21:26,080 sniffer dog detection Zach chua Lee 476 00:21:31,110 --> 00:21:29,320 result in a successful charge being 477 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:31,120 brought against somebody that's 478 00:21:35,070 --> 00:21:33,130 incredibly inefficient yes it is 479 00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:35,080 incredibly inefficient and this is now 480 00:21:41,370 --> 00:21:37,840 starting to come out and worst of all is 481 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:41,380 the fact that people who are confronted 482 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:45,250 by a sniffer dog almost all find it very 483 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:48,250 unpleasant very confronting some people 484 00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:51,130 find it quite frightening and urban in 485 00:21:55,230 --> 00:21:52,960 nightclubs and dogs have gone through 486 00:21:57,450 --> 00:21:55,240 and it just makes you think you're 487 00:21:59,220 --> 00:21:57,460 living in a george orwell novel but 488 00:22:01,620 --> 00:21:59,230 worst of all the worst thing about the 489 00:22:04,890 --> 00:22:01,630 sniffer dogs is that they convert a a 490 00:22:08,250 --> 00:22:04,900 slight problem into a much more serious 491 00:22:10,590 --> 00:22:08,260 problem and a lot of people seeing a one 492 00:22:12,539 --> 00:22:10,600 or more sniffer dogs approaching swallow 493 00:22:14,430 --> 00:22:12,549 all the evidence they've got on them so 494 00:22:16,620 --> 00:22:14,440 that there's no evidence to find it's in 495 00:22:20,669 --> 00:22:16,630 their tummy and some of those people 496 00:22:23,010 --> 00:22:20,679 died so a policy that is meant to 497 00:22:24,810 --> 00:22:23,020 protect our health and well-being turns 498 00:22:27,659 --> 00:22:24,820 out to be a risk to our health and 499 00:22:31,399 --> 00:22:27,669 well-being and I think we're going to 500 00:22:34,110 --> 00:22:31,409 see the sniffer dog intervention 501 00:22:37,020 --> 00:22:34,120 disappear in Australia in the next few 502 00:22:39,390 --> 00:22:37,030 years and and it should disappear right 503 00:22:41,220 --> 00:22:39,400 now now for our listeners is there a 504 00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:41,230 website where we can go to and get some 505 00:22:44,909 --> 00:22:43,390 concise arguments on this and the way 506 00:22:47,130 --> 00:22:44,919 forward and is there something we can do 507 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:47,140 politically you can join the Australian 508 00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:48,730 drug law reform foundation we've got a 509 00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:50,320 website you can join through the website 510 00:22:56,430 --> 00:22:53,440 you can join unharmed and harm mainly 511 00:22:58,110 --> 00:22:56,440 works with young people mass audiences 512 00:23:00,690 --> 00:22:58,120 and Australian drug law reform 513 00:23:02,970 --> 00:23:00,700 foundation does a lot of networking with 514 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:02,980 behind the scenes with politicians from 515 00:23:09,779 --> 00:23:06,610 all parties and other opinion leaders so 516 00:23:13,110 --> 00:23:09,789 we work together very closely and I 517 00:23:15,090 --> 00:23:13,120 think what people can do is write 518 00:23:19,020 --> 00:23:15,100 letters to the editor of newspapers they 519 00:23:21,330 --> 00:23:19,030 can ring up talkback radio they can go 520 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:21,340 and see their members of parliament 521 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:24,330 Commonwealth state territory they can 522 00:23:29,850 --> 00:23:27,490 write to their members of parliament all 523 00:23:32,850 --> 00:23:29,860 of these things are well worth doing and 524 00:23:35,450 --> 00:23:32,860 they do have an impact we all should be 525 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:35,460 very skeptical of all of the evidence 526 00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:38,530 people on the drug law reform side look 527 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:40,480 at their evidence skeptic lead people on 528 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:44,170 the who support the war on drugs look at 529 00:23:49,530 --> 00:23:46,090 their evidence skeptically we we should 530 00:23:53,490 --> 00:23:49,540 we don't accept anything hold it up to 531 00:23:56,130 --> 00:23:53,500 the light look at it upside down check 532 00:24:00,680 --> 00:23:56,140 the sources bringing a critical thinking 533 00:24:03,780 --> 00:24:00,690 with you absolutely in spades and I 534 00:24:07,020 --> 00:24:03,790 really do try in the work I do and I 535 00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:07,030 have for a long time to be very 536 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:10,470 scrupulous totally scrupulous about the 537 00:24:16,890 --> 00:24:14,530 what I regard as evidence and I use the 538 00:24:19,740 --> 00:24:16,900 kind of tests that are standard in in 539 00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:19,750 medicine and we need to increasingly 540 00:24:25,170 --> 00:24:22,720 have an evidence-based approach not just 541 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:25,180 in medicine but in social and public 542 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:29,290 policy and that that has started but 543 00:24:57,130 --> 00:24:54,070 QED 2015 with Matt Dillahunty Lucy 544 00:25:00,100 --> 00:24:57,140 Greene Bruce hood and more tickets for 545 00:25:01,540 --> 00:25:00,110 QED 2015 are currently on sale to get 546 00:25:04,390 --> 00:25:01,550 your ticket to one of the highlights of 547 00:25:08,530 --> 00:25:04,400 the skeptical humanist calendar visit 548 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:08,540 QED con dot org slash tickets and what a 549 00:25:14,370 --> 00:25:11,210 lineup QED has this year including oh 550 00:25:17,890 --> 00:25:14,380 one of my favorites dr. Harriet Hall I 551 00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:17,900 met Harriet years ago actually on a an 552 00:25:23,620 --> 00:25:21,710 amazing adventure the skeptic she's 553 00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:23,630 called absolutely worth the price of 554 00:25:28,060 --> 00:25:25,520 admission alone dr. Harriet Hall but of 555 00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:28,070 course professor bruce hood he's a funny 556 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:30,320 guy he's great always good value all 557 00:25:33,670 --> 00:25:32,090 sorts of other people will be there Ritz 558 00:25:35,830 --> 00:25:33,680 will certainly know mitch benn who's 559 00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:35,840 going to be there and you can meet the 560 00:25:41,140 --> 00:25:38,480 one and only Michael Marshall as well as 561 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:41,150 all the other merseyside skeptics and 562 00:25:45,580 --> 00:25:43,490 the skeptics from Manchester I had a 563 00:25:47,230 --> 00:25:45,590 great time at QED two years running I 564 00:25:49,570 --> 00:25:47,240 was there how lucky was high it 565 00:25:52,420 --> 00:25:49,580 certainly is one of the better skeptical 566 00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:52,430 conventions anywhere in the world don't 567 00:25:58,990 --> 00:25:55,370 delay get your ticket to QED con org 568 00:26:01,180 --> 00:25:59,000 slash tickets question explore discover 569 00:26:03,820 --> 00:26:01,190 and this is being held in Manchester of 570 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:03,830 course at the Palace Hotel and that's 571 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:06,770 where that area at trafford that's where 572 00:26:10,690 --> 00:26:09,050 my great grandmother came from so i've 573 00:26:13,030 --> 00:26:10,700 got a sort of a little connection with 574 00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:13,040 that area again QED what a great 575 00:26:26,409 --> 00:26:15,710 conference it is kicking off on friday 576 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:29,899 on the nineteenth of februari this year 577 00:26:34,490 --> 00:26:32,730 Professor Brian Schmidt was the guest of 578 00:26:37,820 --> 00:26:34,500 the Canberra skeptics and one of their 579 00:26:40,130 --> 00:26:37,830 regular talks his talk was entitled the 580 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:40,140 future of science professor brian 581 00:26:46,370 --> 00:26:42,090 schmidt is a Nobel laureate having won 582 00:26:48,289 --> 00:26:46,380 the nobel prize in 2011 physics kevin 583 00:26:50,659 --> 00:26:48,299 davies from the camera skeptics caught 584 00:26:54,110 --> 00:26:50,669 up with professor Schmidt just after the 585 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:54,120 talk thank you very much for speaking to 586 00:26:57,710 --> 00:26:55,890 us professor oh thank you very much has 587 00:27:00,140 --> 00:26:57,720 been a great fun what did you find most 588 00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:00,150 interesting about tonight's tool well it 589 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:02,809 was a very diverse audience I had 590 00:27:08,270 --> 00:27:05,130 children asking questions from the age 591 00:27:11,450 --> 00:27:08,280 of about 72 people who were clearly in 592 00:27:14,149 --> 00:27:11,460 their 70s and we managed to cover just 593 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:14,159 about everything from religion ethics 594 00:27:20,659 --> 00:27:17,730 the future of the universe the basics of 595 00:27:23,770 --> 00:27:20,669 the theory of everything so I think for 596 00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:23,780 me it was the diversity of both the 597 00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:27,840 questions asked and the audience going 598 00:27:31,580 --> 00:27:30,000 on to the topic ethics which was a 599 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:31,590 fairly prominent one what is your 600 00:27:39,710 --> 00:27:34,970 opinion of the teacher of the ethical 601 00:27:43,310 --> 00:27:39,720 problems within science well I think we 602 00:27:45,740 --> 00:27:43,320 need to remind ourselves as scientists 603 00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:45,750 that ethics is an important part of what 604 00:27:51,580 --> 00:27:48,000 we do and sometimes we like to thank God 605 00:27:54,350 --> 00:27:51,590 we're not bound by ethics but ultimately 606 00:27:56,090 --> 00:27:54,360 because science is so powerful it can be 607 00:27:58,970 --> 00:27:56,100 used for good and can be used for bad 608 00:28:01,700 --> 00:27:58,980 and it certainly is very important at 609 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:01,710 changing the world around us we have to 610 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:03,090 realize that sometimes this is going to 611 00:28:07,820 --> 00:28:05,250 be acceptable and sometimes it's not and 612 00:28:10,190 --> 00:28:07,830 so you have to engage in the questions 613 00:28:11,690 --> 00:28:10,200 of ethics and I think you need to 614 00:28:13,850 --> 00:28:11,700 ultimately stick down to a set of 615 00:28:16,370 --> 00:28:13,860 fundamental principles and and make sure 616 00:28:18,409 --> 00:28:16,380 that we are willing to take the time to 617 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:18,419 talk about the ethics and not just 618 00:28:22,530 --> 00:28:20,970 assume that everyone's else's ethics are 619 00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:22,540 going to be the same as our 620 00:28:27,660 --> 00:28:24,310 and there's really such a thing as an 621 00:28:30,330 --> 00:28:27,670 easy ethical question or answer so what 622 00:28:32,370 --> 00:28:30,340 are you working on now okay so the main 623 00:28:34,650 --> 00:28:32,380 thing I'm working on is using the sky 624 00:28:36,180 --> 00:28:34,660 map or telescope which is a relatively 625 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:36,190 small telescope that has a huge digital 626 00:28:42,390 --> 00:28:39,010 camera on it 268 million pixels and 627 00:28:45,270 --> 00:28:42,400 we're scanning the entire sky and that 628 00:28:46,980 --> 00:28:45,280 survey is sort of the treasure map for 629 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:46,990 using the biggest telescopes in the 630 00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:51,250 world to understand everything from does 631 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:52,720 there life out there on other planets 632 00:28:58,380 --> 00:28:55,210 which we can hopefully see by binding 633 00:28:59,940 --> 00:28:58,390 nearby planets that go in front of their 634 00:29:01,530 --> 00:28:59,950 stars so we can pick up the trace 635 00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:01,540 elements of their atmosphere when they 636 00:29:07,140 --> 00:29:04,240 go in front with big telescopes of the 637 00:29:09,150 --> 00:29:07,150 future finding the oldest stars the 638 00:29:12,030 --> 00:29:09,160 first stars in the universe of which 639 00:29:14,460 --> 00:29:12,040 last year we got a early start on much 640 00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:14,470 to my surprise and discovered an object 641 00:29:19,230 --> 00:29:16,960 that was the first object not to have 642 00:29:21,390 --> 00:29:19,240 any iron in it so we think it was a star 643 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:21,400 created from the remains of one of the 644 00:29:25,170 --> 00:29:22,690 first stars in the universe very 645 00:29:27,420 --> 00:29:25,180 exciting I look forward to hearing more 646 00:29:29,490 --> 00:29:27,430 about that so it looks like we'll get to 647 00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:29,500 head off to dinner so thank you very 648 00:29:35,070 --> 00:29:32,230 much professor brian schmidt hope to see 649 00:29:45,950 --> 00:29:35,080 you again in future my pleasure thank 650 00:29:52,409 --> 00:29:49,860 hello skeptical ninjas my name is Jake 651 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:52,419 far Wharton named Russ fault and we're 652 00:29:57,899 --> 00:29:55,450 from the Brisbane skeptics society we 653 00:30:00,840 --> 00:29:57,909 are here to announce the first round of 654 00:30:02,970 --> 00:30:00,850 speakers and amazing events for this 655 00:30:05,070 --> 00:30:02,980 year's national skeptic convention 656 00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:05,080 that'll be held in Brisbane on the 657 00:30:10,769 --> 00:30:07,360 sixteenth to the eighteenth of October 658 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:10,779 at QUT Gardens point featuring speakers 659 00:30:17,549 --> 00:30:13,450 such as Nobel Prize winner Brian Schmidt 660 00:30:20,850 --> 00:30:17,559 Susan garba KO nikal cigna came polly 661 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:20,860 worland dr. Peter ellerton catan Joshi 662 00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:24,610 Ross bausch & A panel on parenting 663 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:26,320 skeptically featuring all of your 664 00:30:31,619 --> 00:30:28,330 favorite ladies from the skeptic zone on 665 00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:31,629 the afternoon of the 16th we're also 666 00:30:36,990 --> 00:30:35,440 hosting a free skeptic am not only that 667 00:30:39,450 --> 00:30:37,000 but in the evening we have a free 668 00:30:43,249 --> 00:30:39,460 skeptical variety show and let's not 669 00:30:46,289 --> 00:30:43,259 forget the gala dinner held on Saturday 670 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:46,299 17th for more information about the 671 00:30:51,869 --> 00:30:48,970 National Convention go to convention 672 00:30:53,669 --> 00:30:51,879 Brisbane skeptics org and get yourself 673 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:53,679 on the email list where you can be the 674 00:30:56,820 --> 00:30:54,970 first to know about the latest 675 00:31:05,129 --> 00:30:56,830 developments as well as when tickets go 676 00:31:07,619 --> 00:31:05,139 on sale welcome to weaken science from 677 00:31:10,350 --> 00:31:07,629 RI oz bringing you the science you need 678 00:31:12,690 --> 00:31:10,360 to know it's a here can Jimmy Anderson 679 00:31:14,759 --> 00:31:12,700 and Damien Fleming a masters of swinging 680 00:31:16,409 --> 00:31:14,769 a cricket ball in the air and I've got 681 00:31:18,090 --> 00:31:16,419 the differences between smooth and 682 00:31:25,210 --> 00:31:18,100 turbulent airflow to thank for their 683 00:31:29,690 --> 00:31:27,770 when traveling through the air a cricket 684 00:31:32,210 --> 00:31:29,700 ball want to move towards the side which 685 00:31:34,399 --> 00:31:32,220 has the more turbulent airflow let me 686 00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:34,409 explain why to swing a cricket ball 687 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:36,720 conventionally the seam is angled to one 688 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:38,970 side meaning that as the ball flies 689 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:41,010 through the air the smooth side of the 690 00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:43,890 ball causes smooth airflow but the same 691 00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:45,809 trips up the air and causes turbulence 692 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:48,240 on the other side the turbulent air 693 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:50,970 stays closed or attached to the ball for 694 00:31:55,310 --> 00:31:53,010 longer than the smooth laminar flowing 695 00:31:57,140 --> 00:31:55,320 side this causes a difference in 696 00:31:58,760 --> 00:31:57,150 pressure on each side of the ball with 697 00:32:01,220 --> 00:31:58,770 less pressure on the turbulent side 698 00:32:03,740 --> 00:32:01,230 making the ball move towards the same 699 00:32:05,510 --> 00:32:03,750 the maximum amounts of side force is 700 00:32:08,450 --> 00:32:05,520 generated at a bowling speed of around 701 00:32:10,190 --> 00:32:08,460 70 miles per hour what happens above 702 00:32:15,919 --> 00:32:10,200 that oh that's when we start getting 703 00:32:17,779 --> 00:32:15,929 reverse swing above 85 miles an hour the 704 00:32:19,669 --> 00:32:17,789 air doesn't need interference to start 705 00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:19,679 becoming turbulent on the surface of the 706 00:32:24,289 --> 00:32:22,110 bowl in this case the seam of the ball 707 00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:24,299 makes that already turbulent air even 708 00:32:28,730 --> 00:32:26,880 Messier this extra messy air will 709 00:32:30,740 --> 00:32:28,740 actually detach from the surface quicker 710 00:32:32,779 --> 00:32:30,750 than the modelling turbulent air on the 711 00:32:35,419 --> 00:32:32,789 other side causing the low air pressure 712 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:35,429 to be on the opposite side and the ball 713 00:32:39,529 --> 00:32:37,890 swinging away from the same and if the 714 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:39,539 ball is being bowled with the same 715 00:32:43,970 --> 00:32:42,090 straight the same forces are in play but 716 00:32:46,190 --> 00:32:43,980 using the smooth and rough sides of the 717 00:32:49,250 --> 00:32:46,200 ball to create different air flows on 718 00:32:54,140 --> 00:32:49,260 each side and now for fast facts about 719 00:32:55,820 --> 00:32:54,150 the science of sports this is a slightly 720 00:32:58,130 --> 00:32:55,830 different effect two swinging a soccer 721 00:33:00,020 --> 00:32:58,140 ball where the horizontal rotation of 722 00:33:02,169 --> 00:33:00,030 the ball creates differences in air 723 00:33:04,610 --> 00:33:02,179 resistance and attachment on each side 724 00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:04,620 baseball pitchers curves the same way to 725 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:06,720 a soccer ball the rotation of the ball 726 00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:08,850 in one direction causes the difference 727 00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:11,760 in air attachment facing a fast bowler a 728 00:33:16,010 --> 00:33:13,679 batsman has around half a second to 729 00:33:18,649 --> 00:33:16,020 assess the trajectory of a ball choose a 730 00:33:20,899 --> 00:33:18,659 shot and play it and if you're as sick 731 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:20,909 as me seeing a bowl or bowl repeated no 732 00:33:25,070 --> 00:33:23,250 balls if they move their foot 15 733 00:33:27,230 --> 00:33:25,080 centimeters backward to remove the 734 00:33:28,820 --> 00:33:27,240 chance of a no ball their apparent 735 00:33:31,789 --> 00:33:28,830 speeds of the batsman would drop by 736 00:33:33,690 --> 00:33:31,799 around one kilometer per hour that's it 737 00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:33,700 for this week in science 738 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:35,529 more information on the sides of cricket 739 00:33:44,460 --> 00:33:41,010 go to the RO oz website RI aus org a you 740 00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:44,470 follow us on twitter @ ra oz and like us 741 00:34:05,580 --> 00:33:46,720 on Facebook I'm Ben Lawson we'll catch 742 00:34:07,740 --> 00:34:05,590 you next week Australian skeptics in 743 00:34:11,730 --> 00:34:07,750 Sydney invite you to our first dinner 744 00:34:14,129 --> 00:34:11,740 meeting for 2015 health care in 745 00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:14,139 Australia is full of fictitious diseases 746 00:34:19,770 --> 00:34:16,510 fake treatments and pseudo scientific 747 00:34:21,720 --> 00:34:19,780 terminology some health problems are 748 00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:21,730 also very embarrassing to mention in 749 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:24,129 polite company and this has led to many 750 00:34:29,819 --> 00:34:26,050 people diagnosing themselves at home 751 00:34:31,530 --> 00:34:29,829 using dr. Google it's difficult to 752 00:34:33,659 --> 00:34:31,540 navigate between evidence-based medicine 753 00:34:36,540 --> 00:34:33,669 and popular discussion of the latest 754 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:36,550 fads and this is where dr. Brad Mackay 755 00:34:42,629 --> 00:34:40,810 comes in dr. brad is a GP and TV host of 756 00:34:45,030 --> 00:34:42,639 embarrassing bodies down under a 757 00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:45,040 television show dedicated to decreasing 758 00:34:48,930 --> 00:34:46,720 the stigma of medical problems and 759 00:34:51,899 --> 00:34:48,940 increasing awareness of traditionally 760 00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:51,909 taboo topics he has an impressive 761 00:34:56,460 --> 00:34:54,399 background in medicine who is accepted 762 00:34:59,130 --> 00:34:56,470 into medicine at monash university when 763 00:35:02,000 --> 00:34:59,140 he was only 16 years old and started 764 00:35:04,260 --> 00:35:02,010 working as a doctor at the age of 21 765 00:35:06,870 --> 00:35:04,270 he's been working in general practice 766 00:35:09,089 --> 00:35:06,880 for the past 10 years and regularly 767 00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:09,099 tackles the tough and often embarrassing 768 00:35:14,849 --> 00:35:11,440 questions from his patients helping to 769 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:14,859 find clarity in a woo filled world he's 770 00:35:20,930 --> 00:35:17,530 a dynamic speaker on medical myths false 771 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:20,940 fads and of course embarrassing bodies 772 00:35:30,870 --> 00:35:26,410 to book your place go to ww skeptics com 773 00:35:32,940 --> 00:35:30,880 au / shop / events the dinner will be 774 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:32,950 held at the ride Eastwood leagues club 775 00:35:39,180 --> 00:35:35,410 on saturday the twenty-eighth of march 776 00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:39,190 at 630pm please book your ticket by 777 00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:41,440 wednesday march 25 778 00:35:47,099 --> 00:35:43,839 tickets are fifty dollars and include an 779 00:35:49,109 --> 00:35:47,109 extensive buffet dinner the special door 780 00:35:51,780 --> 00:35:49,119 prize means one person will have their 781 00:35:55,980 --> 00:35:51,790 dinner fee reimbursed that's dinner and 782 00:35:58,650 --> 00:35:55,990 a show for free book now for your place 783 00:36:11,880 --> 00:35:58,660 on the examination couch we look forward 784 00:36:12,930 --> 00:36:11,890 to seeing you there so as we mentioned 785 00:36:15,390 --> 00:36:12,940 at the top of the show we're going to 786 00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:15,400 talk a little bit about this story I had 787 00:36:20,099 --> 00:36:17,200 to do with a woman who called herself 788 00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:20,109 and was labeled anyway the Wilmes 789 00:36:27,079 --> 00:36:23,200 warrior Joe yes this was jessica 790 00:36:31,620 --> 00:36:27,089 ainscough she was initially diagnosed 791 00:36:35,010 --> 00:36:31,630 with epithelial sarcoma in her I think 792 00:36:38,190 --> 00:36:35,020 left arm lifts on her and went through 793 00:36:41,490 --> 00:36:38,200 one round of treatment and after that 794 00:36:43,410 --> 00:36:41,500 her oncologist suggested well advised 795 00:36:45,780 --> 00:36:43,420 that the best way to be rid of this 796 00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:45,790 cancer was actually to have a fairly 797 00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:49,359 radical amputation performed she decided 798 00:36:56,819 --> 00:36:54,250 against that and took on girl on therapy 799 00:37:00,030 --> 00:36:56,829 which is basically very natural living 800 00:37:03,900 --> 00:37:00,040 juicing and coffee enemas coffee enemas 801 00:37:10,170 --> 00:37:03,910 indeed and a direct quote from Jessica 802 00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:10,180 made only for about four years ago when 803 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:12,880 she was telling her story was I refused 804 00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:16,290 to follow the doctor's orders now she 805 00:37:23,579 --> 00:37:21,040 took the opinion that her body with the 806 00:37:26,069 --> 00:37:23,589 help of certain natural therapies would 807 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:26,079 know what to do would know how to fight 808 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:29,650 these cancers and clean herself out so 809 00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:32,410 she did this as she was big into healthy 810 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:34,510 living as we were saying in this sort of 811 00:37:42,180 --> 00:37:38,170 thing sadly she convinced her mother as 812 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:42,190 it happens to follow the same regime and 813 00:37:46,349 --> 00:37:43,690 her mother had breast cancer but and 814 00:37:48,510 --> 00:37:46,359 women died not long afterwards my mother 815 00:37:52,230 --> 00:37:48,520 gave up what we might call traditional 816 00:37:54,660 --> 00:37:52,240 if evidence-based therapies also it's 817 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:54,670 interesting to note that Jessica was 818 00:37:57,359 --> 00:37:55,210 also 819 00:38:00,900 --> 00:37:57,369 went down the path of conspiracy theory 820 00:38:03,780 --> 00:38:00,910 yeah the the big farmer rejection of 821 00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:03,790 medicine sort of belief system I'm 822 00:38:09,570 --> 00:38:07,270 actually I find this story incredibly 823 00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:09,580 tragic but if I said yes she fell for 824 00:38:14,910 --> 00:38:12,640 the way of thinking being that natural 825 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:14,920 therapies were going to kill her and 826 00:38:21,390 --> 00:38:19,210 unfortunately she became an advocate for 827 00:38:24,329 --> 00:38:21,400 this sort of thing through her blog she 828 00:38:26,579 --> 00:38:24,339 did motivational speaking and convinced 829 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:26,589 a whole lot of other people to follow 830 00:38:31,349 --> 00:38:29,170 the same path and reject evidence-based 831 00:38:33,450 --> 00:38:31,359 medicine now let me read something that 832 00:38:36,060 --> 00:38:33,460 our friend Joanne benim ooh who of 833 00:38:39,050 --> 00:38:36,070 course was a skeptic zone reporter what 834 00:38:42,990 --> 00:38:39,060 she wrote about this tragic affair 835 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:43,000 Joanne rights Jessica Ann scoff wellness 836 00:38:48,839 --> 00:38:45,970 Warrior died on the 26 of februari I 837 00:38:51,359 --> 00:38:48,849 feel sad for her friends and family at 838 00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:51,369 losing their loved one but I feel angry 839 00:38:56,190 --> 00:38:53,680 that over the last few years we have 840 00:38:58,230 --> 00:38:56,200 watched a young woman slowly die what 841 00:39:00,240 --> 00:38:58,240 must have been a horrible death which 842 00:39:02,430 --> 00:39:00,250 could have been avoided if she had 843 00:39:04,079 --> 00:39:02,440 listened to her doctors rather than 844 00:39:07,980 --> 00:39:04,089 ignoring their recommendations and 845 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:07,990 pursuing a range of unproven remedies in 846 00:39:11,930 --> 00:39:09,970 so doing she gained a legion of 847 00:39:15,540 --> 00:39:11,940 followers who believed that she was 848 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:15,550 healed in quotation marks by alternative 849 00:39:21,210 --> 00:39:18,250 therapies who continued to a spouse her 850 00:39:23,460 --> 00:39:21,220 message and some of whom have followed 851 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:23,470 her non medical advice themselves and 852 00:39:29,070 --> 00:39:26,890 eschewed effective treatment a terribly 853 00:39:30,570 --> 00:39:29,080 sad state of affairs and this is a very 854 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:30,580 important message this is a very 855 00:39:35,630 --> 00:39:32,770 important message and the photographs of 856 00:39:39,780 --> 00:39:35,640 this woman Jessica are all completely 857 00:39:42,210 --> 00:39:39,790 angelic beaming healthy-looking 858 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:42,220 everything's fine here am i drinking the 859 00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:45,010 natural jus son if your google wellness 860 00:39:49,980 --> 00:39:47,680 warrior do an image search you'll know 861 00:39:51,930 --> 00:39:49,990 what we mean it's it's quite something I 862 00:39:54,570 --> 00:39:51,940 mean I don't know Joe I think that she 863 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:54,580 had some sort of professional help here 864 00:39:59,880 --> 00:39:56,410 gettin these publicity photographs out 865 00:40:02,510 --> 00:39:59,890 I'm quite possibly I mean she was making 866 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:02,520 as I understand making a living out of 867 00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:05,530 coaching people regarding their health 868 00:40:09,309 --> 00:40:08,710 and alternative medicine that she was 869 00:40:11,559 --> 00:40:09,319 promoting 870 00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:11,569 um it's yeah I mean she does look very 871 00:40:17,170 --> 00:40:15,049 healthy but something really sad that 872 00:40:19,749 --> 00:40:17,180 I've seen over the past few years as 873 00:40:21,489 --> 00:40:19,759 have been watching her media photos be 874 00:40:24,039 --> 00:40:21,499 made public cuz she's been in newspapers 875 00:40:26,859 --> 00:40:24,049 she's yes you know received a fair 876 00:40:29,049 --> 00:40:26,869 amount of publicity for something fairly 877 00:40:30,910 --> 00:40:29,059 radical that she was claiming that she 878 00:40:33,459 --> 00:40:30,920 had been healed unfortunately yeah over 879 00:40:36,459 --> 00:40:33,469 the past few years she's progressively 880 00:40:38,859 --> 00:40:36,469 been hiding her arm yea which was 881 00:40:41,469 --> 00:40:38,869 affected by cancer well looking at the 882 00:40:45,189 --> 00:40:41,479 looking at a shot of her on her own web 883 00:40:47,049 --> 00:40:45,199 page actually Jessica ainscough dot-com 884 00:40:49,479 --> 00:40:47,059 in fact when you go there now 885 00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:49,489 automatically switches you too in loving 886 00:40:54,910 --> 00:40:52,609 memory and this use beaming on the couch 887 00:40:57,189 --> 00:40:54,920 with that dog and some cushions looking 888 00:40:59,890 --> 00:40:57,199 very happy but yes her left arm is 889 00:41:03,339 --> 00:40:59,900 nowhere to be seen so I I guess the 890 00:41:05,559 --> 00:41:03,349 message here is as Joanne bertemu points 891 00:41:07,539 --> 00:41:05,569 out these are unproven remedies you know 892 00:41:10,539 --> 00:41:07,549 and they're called alternative medicine 893 00:41:12,699 --> 00:41:10,549 for a good reason because as we know 894 00:41:14,650 --> 00:41:12,709 alternative medicine is your medicines 895 00:41:17,410 --> 00:41:14,660 that's been proven not to work or is 896 00:41:20,439 --> 00:41:17,420 unproven to work and her supporters gel 897 00:41:23,410 --> 00:41:20,449 I mean someone like this who's suffering 898 00:41:25,209 --> 00:41:23,420 what will their on a journey I mean we 899 00:41:27,249 --> 00:41:25,219 can understand that to an extent I guess 900 00:41:30,209 --> 00:41:27,259 but it's interesting that the her 901 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:30,219 legions of fans what they go through 902 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:32,930 yeah unfortunately I mean obviously 903 00:41:38,229 --> 00:41:35,690 there's a lot of grief being out port 904 00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:38,239 and this is a terrible situation her 905 00:41:43,660 --> 00:41:40,160 supporters who have been speaking on 906 00:41:47,650 --> 00:41:43,670 social media for the most part have not 907 00:41:50,289 --> 00:41:47,660 seen her awful passing as evidence or 908 00:41:52,509 --> 00:41:50,299 indicative at all that Gershon therapy 909 00:41:55,359 --> 00:41:52,519 did not treat her cancer did not cure 910 00:41:58,089 --> 00:41:55,369 her cancer which is incredibly sad I 911 00:42:00,910 --> 00:41:58,099 it's a blind spot isn't it is it's 912 00:42:03,999 --> 00:42:00,920 almost cult-like thinking I feel that 913 00:42:05,739 --> 00:42:04,009 there that utterly convinced that this 914 00:42:07,660 --> 00:42:05,749 is the right thing to do that this is 915 00:42:11,890 --> 00:42:07,670 the path that they should be taking that 916 00:42:15,009 --> 00:42:11,900 even even this tragic situation hasn't 917 00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:15,019 been enough to sway that it really 918 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:16,880 troubles me actually the regime that 919 00:42:20,890 --> 00:42:18,410 people on gershwin therapy put 920 00:42:22,460 --> 00:42:20,900 themselves through that's five coffee 921 00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:22,470 enemas a day that's 922 00:42:27,500 --> 00:42:24,960 not a I mean even if you're beyond 923 00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:27,510 having traditional I don't know what to 924 00:42:31,700 --> 00:42:30,000 say traditional they're so modern um we 925 00:42:34,099 --> 00:42:31,710 have medicine yeah that's the one 926 00:42:35,780 --> 00:42:34,109 evidence-based medicine if you're at a 927 00:42:37,310 --> 00:42:35,790 point where there's a very low chance 928 00:42:39,740 --> 00:42:37,320 that that's going to help and you're in 929 00:42:41,390 --> 00:42:39,750 palliative care and you just want to 930 00:42:43,250 --> 00:42:41,400 feel like you're doing something maybe 931 00:42:45,650 --> 00:42:43,260 for coffee enemas to be the thing that 932 00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:45,660 you're doing it's just heartbreaking it 933 00:42:48,980 --> 00:42:47,520 so it is amazing I wonder who invented 934 00:42:51,620 --> 00:42:48,990 these in the first place they've got a 935 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:51,630 lot to answer for that look s on maybe 936 00:42:57,830 --> 00:42:54,570 in this case look a very sad story the 937 00:43:02,839 --> 00:42:57,840 message is your best bet is to follow 938 00:43:04,580 --> 00:43:02,849 the recommendations by your specialists 939 00:43:07,220 --> 00:43:04,590 you know what they're not going to be a 940 00:43:08,990 --> 00:43:07,230 hundred percent perfect nobody is get a 941 00:43:12,890 --> 00:43:09,000 second opinion its your right to do that 942 00:43:14,690 --> 00:43:12,900 and so on but to abandon that and then 943 00:43:17,359 --> 00:43:14,700 leap to something which was no track 944 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:17,369 record but again as I say it looks like 945 00:43:20,089 --> 00:43:18,930 so you just went down the rabbit hole I 946 00:43:22,339 --> 00:43:20,099 mean she's locked the whole conspiracy 947 00:43:25,970 --> 00:43:22,349 that the big pharma conspiracy in with 948 00:43:37,349 --> 00:43:25,980 it too so a sad story but I think 949 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:45,220 trust three Lucy a mini loafer of the 950 00:43:49,210 --> 00:43:47,450 Islamic law be so skeptical moons of you 951 00:43:51,220 --> 00:43:49,220 must not reach that rope recorded cars 952 00:43:53,050 --> 00:43:51,230 the divinity of Austria it algebra 953 00:43:54,700 --> 00:43:53,060 shampoo Susitna podcast Petrova hooded 954 00:43:56,830 --> 00:43:54,710 garden engine but customs White's 955 00:43:59,080 --> 00:43:56,840 escaped aside a cutter bombers just not 956 00:44:03,820 --> 00:43:59,090 inertia dayton st at the wave over 957 00:44:05,260 --> 00:44:03,830 skeptics society Rajguru everybody my 958 00:44:07,540 --> 00:44:05,270 name is carol and i'm the founder of 959 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:07,550 skeptics society russia come visit us in 960 00:44:11,290 --> 00:44:09,290 moscow and our bi-weekly meetings and 961 00:44:13,180 --> 00:44:11,300 also listen to our weekly podcast which 962 00:44:15,250 --> 00:44:13,190 is called skeptic and the site where you 963 00:44:35,470 --> 00:44:15,260 can find all of that is skeptics society 964 00:44:39,890 --> 00:44:37,760 thank you for listening to the skeptic 965 00:44:41,390 --> 00:44:39,900 zone now those people in Sydney Joe 966 00:44:43,220 --> 00:44:41,400 those people and suddenly they have a 967 00:44:45,260 --> 00:44:43,230 chance to come along and meet you meet 968 00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:45,270 me meet lots of people from the skeptic 969 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:47,520 zone lots of good skeptic zip skeptics 970 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:49,410 in the pub skeptics in the pub on 971 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:51,210 thursday night thursday night and 972 00:44:55,310 --> 00:44:52,890 goodness what are they going to be 973 00:44:56,540 --> 00:44:55,320 talking about this week I've let me run 974 00:45:02,570 --> 00:44:56,550 over to the other side of the room I'm 975 00:45:04,310 --> 00:45:02,580 not running to the fridge I mean makes 976 00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:04,320 the microphone look at this Jo what I 977 00:45:10,220 --> 00:45:07,920 have in my hope that allow premium wine 978 00:45:12,860 --> 00:45:10,230 card oh it's in a beautiful black box 979 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:12,870 with with silver and oh my goodness and 980 00:45:19,610 --> 00:45:15,450 the barbarities oh it actually has a 981 00:45:21,950 --> 00:45:19,620 little origami pop-up it does that's the 982 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:21,960 sound of the premium wine my hand is 983 00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:24,210 slightly metallic i think it is rather i 984 00:45:30,380 --> 00:45:26,730 think it might be an aluminium yeah it's 985 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:30,390 got a little in a wine glass logo sort 986 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:32,370 of pressed out in the middle or to the 987 00:45:37,580 --> 00:45:35,490 side i should say there it is we're 988 00:45:39,350 --> 00:45:37,590 going to be testing that array 989 00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:39,360 informally i grant you but we're going 990 00:45:43,130 --> 00:45:41,310 to be having great fun at skeptic in the 991 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:43,140 pub testing this card to see if it can 992 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:45,930 prove the taste of wine and water and 993 00:45:51,170 --> 00:45:48,930 other drinks goodness may goodness me 994 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:51,180 I'm skeptical you skeptical birthing 995 00:45:55,850 --> 00:45:53,730 those people in Sydney the you 996 00:45:58,430 --> 00:45:55,860 everybody's welcome the crown hotel in 997 00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,440 the city just Google and skeptics in the 998 00:46:03,140 --> 00:46:00,480 pub in Sydney for more information this 999 00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:03,150 thursday night well Joe thank you for 1000 00:46:07,130 --> 00:46:05,280 again thank you for coming down the 1001 00:46:08,900 --> 00:46:07,140 mountains and visiting me here in Sydney 1002 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:08,910 it's been a pusher thank you very much 1003 00:46:14,330 --> 00:46:12,570 and for this week while we look out the 1004 00:46:16,310 --> 00:46:14,340 window again that storm still sort of 1005 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:16,320 gathering out there this is Richard 1006 00:46:24,580 --> 00:46:19,410 Saunders and Joe alabaster signing off 1007 00:46:30,770 --> 00:46:27,020 you've been listening to the skeptics 1008 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:30,780 own podcast visit our website at wwc a 1009 00:46:37,130 --> 00:46:33,690 petting zoo TV for contacts and archive 1010 00:46:39,830 --> 00:46:37,140 of all episodes since 2008 and our 1011 00:46:41,740 --> 00:46:39,840 online store please support the skeptic 1012 00:46:44,930 --> 00:46:41,750 zone by following us on twitter at 1013 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:44,940 skeptic zone liking us on facebook and 1014 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:48,570 leaving a review on iTunes you can also 1015 00:46:53,890 --> 00:46:50,730 show your support by subscribing via 1016 00:46:56,660 --> 00:46:53,900 paypal for as little as 99 cents a week 1017 00:46:58,280 --> 00:46:56,670 the skeptic zone is an independent 1018 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